Hmmm.

[vr_trakowski]

If you read Löyli, would you be willing to give me an opinion on a possibly touchy issue? 


It has been brought to my attention that the scenario I created in Löyli could be considered sexual assault. 

I am not in possession of details, so I'm not sure to which part the objection refers--Tony hugging Pepper during their argument, or the encounter afterwards.  It could be both, I suppose, though I thought I was making it clear that Pepper was entirely willing for at least the latter part. 

In my head, Tony's hug, while unwelcome, isn't sexual in nature; it's a product of his epiphany, and he doesn't let her go at first because he's too caught up in that to pay attention to her anger.  But I may not have made that clear enough.  It could also be that some definitions of sexual assault are more stringent than mine. 

Opinions?  I'd really like to know what you think; you are, after all, the people for whom these stories are written.  Did I go too far?  Did I break character?  Am I doing the characters, or the fandom, a disservice? 

Thank you. 

ETA: Wow.  I wasn't anticipating quite this response, but I'm glad to see it!  Thank you all for your honesty, and for your courtesy.  And if you came from somewhere outside the fandom, welcome, feel free to join in. 

I fully intend to respond to the new replies, but if I don't get some sleep I'm going to start hallucinating, so I'll be back tomorrow.  Please, carry on meanwhile if you are so moved; just stay courteous. 

Comments

[saourise.livejournal.com]

Hey, wow you probably have moved on by now, but I just got to read this all and want to respond as well, if you don't mind.
English is not my mother tongue, so please bear with me here :)

First of all the conflict here is what got me a link to the story in the first place, so I'm grateful, and I really enjoyed myself.
But after reading all this I'm even more happy to have stumbled upon this post. I love how simple act of sharing your fantasy about Tony/Pepper in a fan fiction can initiate such a deep discussion about writing and its unconscious meanings.

About the subject in hand:
While reading your story (which I did first of all, before reading the break-down of amonitrate) I enjoyed it, it had nice Tony/Pepper dynamics and likely plot. I didn't like that he called her a bitch, for example, it stung in my ears, but overall it's a nice description of a fantasy about how Tony and Pepper finally get together - with Tony in the lead, which is not new concept to Pepperony fics.

After reading the break down, while I agree with many things in it (I just love this analysis, cause it's backed-up with so many examples throughout the story) - I don't think less of your story at all. It kinda made me like it more, knowing that there are some darker meanings that can me found in it.

It's always been clear that Tony is really self-centered, and being a key figure in his multi-billion corporation truly must've made an impact upon his behavior when he's being denied something he wants. His disregard others' wishes, especially women, is clearly a result of all his past experiences with women - they sought him out to bed him (well, mostly be seduced and bedded by him) - well of course for years he felt like a desirable prize, and as such isn't used to consideration.

I don't think that this behavioral pattern can be changed that fast, even if he'd had his eyes open and really loves Pepper - it's still going to take time. He needs to learn to behave differently, and leaning always takes time.
I think it's only natural that he acts the way he does, even if it suggests mild "stalkiness" and a bit of abusiveness.
The story clearly shows his affection to her, and frankly there are more aggressive ways to seduce someone who seems unwilling, without making it a date-rape... and Tony is an expert, I believe.

Yeah, maybe we all are part of a society that is still too forgiving to abusive men, but it's only fan fiction. And this story actually make sense even with this analysis in mind.

Whether or not we must seek to educate and keeping it "politically correct" even when we write fan-fiction is another discussion altogether, even more hard than the discussion above. :)

I only hope that you'll find amonitrate's analysis as somewhat constructive criticism, and it'll only improve your work. Exploring characters is pretty much the fun part of fiction, plot or not :)

So thanks for the fiction, you're a great writer. I have some of your stories in the favorite list on ff.net, and I re-read them occasionally.

[vr-trakowski.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks for the note! :D I don't mind at all.

First off, I'm glad you enjoyed this one. I never expected quite the reaction it generated, but people were courteous to one another in the ensuing discussion, and that was the most important thing to me. And it made me think.

I agree with you, actually. To me Tony's actions were based on his personality, which IS self-centered. He's not perfect, and Pepper knows his flaws and is apparently willing to accept them or at least work around them, or she wouldn't still be there. Nor is she perfect herself, and human beings and their reactions are enormously complicated.

Part of the question, I think (after some long reflection), was should we portray these things in our stories? They may be valid character interpretations, but having Tony err and Pepper forgive could be a way of furthering the unacceptable societal status quo.

amonitrate and others made some excellent points. I don't agree with all of them, but it has made me pay closer attention to what I write, which is a good thing. I changed a scene or two in Green Laurel because of this discussion, for instance.

I still regret the "bitch" in retrospect; clearly it's a trigger word for many folks. It isn't for me, there are words I think are much worse, and I know some women use it as an empowering term, but language is complicated... :P

BTW, your written English is much more fluent than many native speakers'. As someone who has tried to learn other languages without success, I'm jealous!